TLC Rule 80-20(a)(4): Asking Destination Before Seated

In short: Rule 80-20(a)(4) says a taxi driver — or a green cab driver on a hail trip in the Hail Zone — must not try to find out where a passenger is going before the passenger is seated in the car. It does not matter if you take the trip in the end: the rule says asking first is a violation "regardless if the Driver ultimately agrees to transport the Passenger." It is treated as a service refusal with mandatory penalties: $350 / $500 for a first violation.

What the rule says

Section 80-20(a)(4) of the TLC Chapter 80 rule book, headed "Ask Destination in Advance," reads in part: "A Driver must not attempt to learn the destination of a Passenger before the Passenger is seated in the Taxicab or, for a Hail Trip started in the Hail Zone, in the Street Hail Livery, except for Flex Fare Trips."

The rule then gives one more exception: asking in advance is not a violation "if the Driver is returning to his or her home or garage and has followed the procedures provided in 80-19(a)(5) or 80-19(b)(6)."

Penalty: "Mandatory penalties as set forth in §80-02(e)." Appearance NOT REQUIRED.

Why the rule exists

The rule protects the passenger's right to be taken to any destination in the city, Westchester, Nassau or Newark Airport (see rule 80-20(a)(1)). Asking "Where are you going?" through the window gives the driver a chance to drive away from a trip they don't want. The rule removes that chance by making the question itself the violation.

Who it applies to

• Yellow taxi drivers on every street hail.
• Green cab drivers on hail trips started in the Hail Zone.
• Not FHV drivers on app or base trips: the destination is already known from the booking.
• Not Flex Fare trips, where the e-hail app sets an upfront fare for a specific trip before dispatch (chapter 51 definition).

The going-home exception, step by step

The exception is narrow. For a taxi, rule 80-19(a)(5) allows a logged-off driver to accept a passenger only when all of these are true:

If any step is missing, the exception does not apply, and the question becomes a violation. Not following 80-19(a)(5) is itself a separate violation ($75 plead guilty / $100 after a hearing).

Penalties

The 24- and 36-month windows count backwards from the date of the latest violation, and include overcharges and other refusal codes.

How often it is charged

This code appears far less often than the general refusal code, with a few dozen summonses a year at most. One reason may be that a destination question that ends in a refusal can be charged as 80-20(a)(1) instead — the data cannot show which.

How this differs from a regular refusal

A regular refusal under 80-20(a)(1) needs a refusal: the passenger was not taken where they wanted to go. Rule 80-20(a)(4) does not. The violation is complete as soon as you try to learn the destination before the passenger is seated — even if you then say "get in" and drive them there. That makes the key fact in these cases the timing of the question, not what happened after.

Because both rules share the same penalty ladder, one summons of each within 24 months is treated as a second violation. If the summons lists both codes for one incident, ask your lawyer how the judge is likely to treat them. Also check whether the passenger's account is clear about where they were standing when the question came up: on the curb, at an open window, or with the door already open and partly inside.

What to do now

1. Check the facts on the summons. Was the passenger outside the car, or already seated, when the destination came up? That is the core of this rule.
2. Check your status at that moment. Were you logged off and heading home with the trip record entry made? Pull the Technology System data.
3. Was it a Flex Fare or e-hail trip? If so, the rule's exception may apply.
4. Look at your 24/36-month history before you plead guilty — a guilty plea counts as a violation for the ladder.
5. Use the deadline calculator so you don't miss your OATH date.

Points to discuss with your lawyer

• Can the complainant say clearly whether they were inside or outside the car?
• Did the conversation actually happen before they were seated, or after?
• Do your records show you were going home, with the required log-off and trip record entry?
• Was the trip arranged through an app?

See also: TLC service refusal rules and responding to a passenger complaint.